No Joy, No Misery

a summarized transcription

by Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

[video] [audio]

Q: What is the escape from pain? Because most people seem to think that it is pleasure.

Ajahn Nyanamoli: They don’t necessarily think that though. That is the only escape that they know. A person without the right view will have only one attitude towards pain, which is to cover it with pleasure. That is the only means of escape that they know. Either trying to get rid of the pain, because that is more pleasant, or to find some different pleasure to occupy oneself with, so you forget about the pain. Either way, you turn towards pleasure to avoid pain, because you can’t deal with pain on its own terms. That’s what the suttas say, the puthujjana doesn’t know any other escape from pain other than sensuality, and sensual pleasure. People are not attracted to sensuality just because it’s pleasant and gives you that sweet taste or something. They’re also dependent on it because that’s the only means that their mind has of dealing with pain. The prospect of sensuality is already something people depend on. The idea is that “at least pleasure is perpetually possible for me.” Even though they might be refraining from it, not engaging with sensuality on a coarse level, they are still using the possibility of pleasure as a relief from when pain is there. In that way, they still depend on pleasure as an escape, albeit only a temporary relief.

Q: One can deal with present pain because there is a possibility for future pleasure.

Nm: There is a promise, a prospect of pleasure later on, that will be greater, so it’s worth enduring this pain now. And, that’s fine. Even when you want to be an arahant, to be free from suffering, you still have the projected idea of pleasure through it. But, the whole practice revolves around removing your dependence on sensual pleasure as a means of dealing with pain. Removing your dependence even on the possibility of sensual pleasure, as means of dealing with pain. That’s why when people heard the Buddha describe nibbāna to them, the puthujjanas in the suttas, they were scared because in their minds it was like “Oh that’s the complete absence of joy and pleasure!”—the only form of joy and pleasure that an unenlightened mind knows, which is sensual pleasure. So, in their minds, Nibbana then is the most depressing miserable dreadful thing that will kill and destroy me. They were genuinely shocked, afraid by it, gripped by anxiety, and fear. Because, a mind that depends on pleasure, the absence of pleasure means misery. But, it doesn’t. Absence of pleasure does not mean pain, it just means the absence of pleasure—the absence of pain as well. What those people were afraid of was just a pure neutral feeling, neither pleasant nor unpleasant. But, in the mind that depends on pleasure, neither-pleasant means painful. It doesn’t matter that it’s not unpleasant either; the fact that it’s not pleasant, for the mind that depends on pleasure, it’s terrifying. It’s terrifying not because in itself it’s terrifying; it’s terrifying because you’re refusing to give up your dependence on pleasure—out of fear. That fear feeds your dependence, which then makes you afraid, which then feeds the dependence. It’s a vicious circle.

Q: So, this neutral feeling, because you crave pleasure, is terrifying.

Nm: Exactly, and that’s what the sutta says when the neutral feeling is not known, not understood, not discerned, it will be felt unpleasantly.

Nibbāna is the absence of joy—it’s joyless. But, joylessness does not mean misery. Joylessness means equanimity; joylessness means no joy, and no pain, means peace, means evenness. But, to value that, the mind needs to train to that level, needs to train for it. In other words, you need to discern and develop wisdom, concerning the neutral feeling, and then it will become the supreme peace of nibbāna. Nothing can match that peace. The mind that depends on pleasure and uses at least the possibility of future pleasure as a means of relief regarding the day-to-day pain, when that mind hears joylessness, that is automatically felt as misery—absolute depressing overwhelming pain. It’s not pleasant, but it’s not unpleasant either. You don’t get to value the fact that it’s not unpleasant either, because you’re too concerned about there being no joy.

That’s why sense restraint needs to be developed beforehand. Through sense restraint, you start training yourself towards the joylessness of sensuality. The root of sensuality, as the Buddha said so many times, is your delight in the joy that you get on account of it. It’s not the beautiful, or tasty objects in the world. The root of sensuality is your dependence on that type of pleasure, nothing else. Remove that dependence on that pleasure and you will find peace. So, sense restraint is physically preparing you, withdrawing you, from that pleasure, so that mentally you can see how gratuitously you depend on it, and then choose to withdraw yourself because, “Ah, this is not worth clinging to,” as the suttas would say. But, if you’re not physically withdrawn, you will never mentally be able to stop depending on it.

Sense restraint means emulating nibbāna—emulating the non-dependence on the joy that’s acquired through the senses. You need to start doing it, even if you still want to have it mentally, physically at least you need to be withdrawn, verbally you need to be withdrawn, and then eventually mentally you’ll be able to do so as well.

Q: Once you start withdrawing yourself from that engaging in pleasures, then what will naturally occur is that experience of neutral feeling.

Nm: Exactly. Once you start withdrawing yourself physically from pleasures, that’s already training for you to be able to endure the neutral feeling, and not freak out regarding it.

Only people that are not withdrawn bodily, verbally, and mentally from sensuality, lose their mind when they recognize what nibbāna is, “oh, that will kill me, that will destroy me.” If you already have been cultivating sense restraint, saying no to yourself, taming your senses, and practicing sense control, it’s not going to be as frightening. The joylessness of nibbāna will be something you can get closer to.

For those who are free from passion, even when these senses are threatened, there is no fear, because there is no passion. There is no dependence on the pleasure of the senses. The absence of passion means no fear of death, means no fear of nibbāna, means no fear of dispassion, which means peace.

Q: It doesn’t mean depression.

Nm: Exactly. Depression is only generated from the point of view of still depending on pleasure. But now you found something that fully crushes that dependence, removes it, and there is no more future for it, and that is only scary because you refuse to give it up—not because a neutral feeling in itself is scary. It’s joyless, but that doesn’t mean it’s miserable. So, absence of joy, and absence of misery. It’s the absence of ambition and the absence of depression. As the arahants in the sutta would say:

Q: The description of the fourth jhāna, describes the complete development of equanimity and surmounting of that pleasure and pain, joy and grief regarding the world.

Nm: It’s a completely steadied mind within a neutral feeling. That’s the whole point. That’s what the jhāna is, even the first jhāna. From the point of view of non-jhāna, first jhana, it’s steadying your mind in a neutral feeling—neutral from that point of view. You can go even further, and refine that neutral feeling up to the point of fourth jhāna equanimity, but even the first jhāna starts by abandoning joy and grief regarding the world, and unification of the mind that comes in that kind of thinking and pondering, and so on. That in itself is felt pleasantly, in a sense of a neutral peace.

Neutral feeling, when understood, it’s felt pleasantly; that’s what the suttas say. Neutral feeling, when not understood, is felt unpleasantly. So, it’s the understanding, your knowledge, your discernment of it, that determines how you’re going to feel it. Joylessness, when understood, it’s pleasant, because there’s no disturbance. Joylessness, when not understood, it’s miserable, dreadful, anxious, overwhelming, and so on.

How then do you prepare yourself to endure it—that which is overwhelmingly anxious, and so on? By sense restraint, by seeing the danger in the slightest fault, by being watchful, mindful, and careful. You’re already practicing mental strength to be able to endure the neutral feeling, which is initially going to try to scare you, and then you train yourself with that, and as a result, dispassion is being developed.

It’s the fear of boredom, the fear of nothing to do that scares most people. So whether they practice Buddhism or not, everything just becomes another thing that they do to keep themselves occupied, because otherwise they would get overwhelmed by the neutrality. Boredom is just a neutral feeling, yet it’s the most dreadful thing for every mind that’s not developed. The more understanding you gain, the more pleasurable it becomes, that neutral feeling, that absence of joy.

There are only three types of feelings, regardless of whether you’re a puthujjana or an arahant. The key difference lies in how much influence those feelings exert over your decisions, views, and assumptions. Being free from views and assumptions towards these feelings allows you to see them as they are without being pressured by them. Then, in the felt, there’s just the felt; in the seen, there’s just the seen; and in the heard, there’s just the heard.

Q: That’s when there is no pressure.

Nm: No pressure means that there’s no feeling there anymore. A puthujjana’s feelings are gone in an arahant, but that doesn’t mean that arahant has no aggregate of feeling anymore. How then can Arahant feel without feeling? It’s a seeming contradiction. Develop an understanding of a neutral feeling and you’ll see.

It all boils down to the development regarding neutral feeling. For you to begin any development concerning neutral feeling—and being able to endure it, and withstand it—you need to stop habitually giving in to the pleasant feeling, and feeding the thirst for more pleasure, and you have to habitually stop giving in to the feeding of the unpleasant feeling to try to get rid of it, resisting it. By doing these two things you are equipping yourself to endure neutrality—that’s felt neither pleasantly but not unpleasantly either.

Q: Clarifying it.

Nm: Exactly. By enduring it, you’re becoming more familiar with it, you are discerning it. So, non-activity, enduring the initial anxiety of boredom and finding value in it. That’s why solitude is so important.

The Buddha outlined what you need to prepare beforehand, so that you can benefit from solitude, which is impeccable virtue, seeing the danger in the slightest fault, sense restraint, and right view. All these things you develop beforehand, and then if you go to the forest, remote dwellings—where there are only wild animals living, and so on—your mind will not overwhelm you. You will be benefiting from it. The neutrality of it.

You don’t need to be in a remote forest or an empty hut.

Q: A place empty of distracting activity is enough.

Nm: Empty of activity, empty of distraction, empty of others turning up as they please. So, physically removed, but yes, an empty apartment will do just fine. You need to have an environment that will support that. Again, don’t think that that will do the work for you. You will be ready for solitude if you’ve already practiced sense restraint concerning the world. If you have already endured joys and griefs regarding the world, without acting out of it habitually. That’s how you surmount it—not by running into solitude, or hiding in the forest. Sometimes people want to go to remote dwellings because they don’t want to deal with their sense restraint. No, that’s like the second deer herd from sutta MN 25, that shuns the bait and runs on top of mountains, but there’s no wisdom developed there.

Sense restraint regarding the world, needs to be developed and needs to be endured. It’s going to be painful, not because of the sense restraint, but because of your dependence on the joys of sensuality. That’s why you suffer when you first restrain yourself. You don’t suffer, because you say no to yourself. You suffer because you’ve been saying yes to sensual pleasures. So, saying no to yourself just reveals your addiction, your dependence on these gratuitous sensual joys.

Q: That’s something you are responsible for.

Nm: Yes, you are the one fully feeding, maintaining, adding to, and proliferating your dependence on sensuality.

So, practice towards joylessness. When joylessness is understood, it’s the utmost peace, agreeability—it’s nibbāna. Joylessness means no delight, no delight in anything. It also means no misery, and being unable to be miserable, scared, or affected by any type of pain on account of anything, including impending death, dying, terminal diagnosis, or whatever else, which eventually will have to occur.